publish standards for the chests please

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Drew458
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publish standards for the chests please

Post by Drew458 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:48 pm

In 2.5.0 and earlier, when I bought a Legendary Equipment Chest I knew it always had 4 upgrade cards in it, each of them Tier 3 or higher.

In 2.6.n there isn't a Tier 5 upgrade card, and there doesn't seem to be much of a standard with the chests. I can pay 500 gems for a Rare chest and get 1,2,3, or 4 cards, from Tier 2 up. I can pay 1000 gems for a Legendary chest and get 1, 2, 3, or 4 cards. Half the time it seems the cards in the Rare, and sometimes even the Regular, are worth more than what shows up in the Legendary. What are the standards, or can this be balanced up a bit?

Upgrading past a minor level requires many thousand card points, quickly becoming millions, which translates to a whole lot of chests.

My suggestions ... if there aren't already standards, perhaps each chest should have total upgrade points equal to at least 50% - 70% of the number of gems in the price:
Legendary chests should always have 4 cards, Tier 3 or 4. Minimum 700 points.
Rare chests should always have at least 3 cards, Tier 2 or higher. Minimum 350 points.
Do what you want with the Regular chests, but if there's only one card don't let it be a Tier 1 or 2. Minimum 100 points.




Wild idea 1 ... Unless I've missed something, the only way to get upgrade cards is by buying or winning chests. Ok, the Traveling Merchant. But unlike in 2.5 when he had an infinite number of chests, now he only has 1 of each type. ONE. Lame.
Cards could also be awarded with the Delivery Quests, instead of cargo or gold. Deliver 2 iron, get 3X Tier 2.

Wild idea 2 ... if a chest has a First Mate in it, that should be an extra card. Half of the Mates are so special purpose that they'll rarely be used, so it isn't much of a bonus to get another one instead of a nice Tier 4 upgrade card. Yes, this idea means some chests might have 5 cards. I have no idea how your selection algorithm works. Maybe keep the 4 card maximum, but set it so that a First Mate card replaces the lowest Tier card in the chest.

Wild idea 3 ... It has never been the case that I can trade gold for gems, only gems for gold. Gems have always only been available for purchase with real money. Might want to consider adding a gold for gems swap to the Shop.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:21 am

I understand you want to know the chances of getting something from a chest.

you can get 4 items max.
first item: 100% chance for material with rarity equal to the chest rarity.
second item: 75% chance for material with rarity 1 lower than the chest rarity. (for common chest this is a another common material)
third item: 50% chance for material wirth rarity equal to the chest rarity.
fourth item: 25% chance for material with rarity 1 higher than the chest rarity.

Each item is rolled. So you dont need to get the second item to be able to get the third or fourth item.

If 1 or more of the item didnt roll in the chest, you will have 10% in any chest to get a First Mate.

Ofcourse these chances are variable. If we find people to get not enough upgrade material we will either increase the chance for chest drops after battles, increase the chance for item roll in chests, or we will lower prices of chests.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:21 pm

The reason that we don't have the option to buy gems with gold, is because gems are the representation of real money in the game.
Gold becomes less valueable the higher your level becomes (as in that you need more gold later), this is also the reason the gold you can buy with gems becomes more then you reach higher level.

Unless we would hard limit gold, there is no way to know how much 1 gold is worth, as its different per level.

This is also the reason you cannot buy gold directly with money, but only with gems.

One of the reason why we multiplied the gems and gold, is so we can be more fexible with gifting gems to players. Because if we gift gems to players, we actually give them money.
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Drew458
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Drew458 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:13 pm

So you are saying that any level of chest - normal, rare, or legendary - can have between 1 and 4 cards in it?

Let me take a guess on what you consider rarity: Tier 1 is common, Tier 2 is less common, Tier 3 is rare, Tier 4 is very rare? Because what you consider rarity is important.

And that for the 1st card,
a normal chest will always have a common card, eg a Tier 1
a rare chest will always have a less common card, eg a Tier 2 or Tier 3
a legendary chest will always have a much less common card, eg a Tier 3 or Tier 4
But IF there is a 2nd card
a normal chest will get a Tier 1
a rare chest will get a Tier 2
a legendary chest will get a Tier 3
And IF there is a 3rd card
half the time the chest will have a card equal to its rarity; eg Tier 1 for normal, Tier 2 for rare, Tier 4 for legendary
the other half of the time, who knows what goes in, it could be anything. Which means you can find a Tier 4 in a normal, or a Tier 1 in a legendary
And IF there is a 4th card, it's a 1 in 4 chance that it's a rarity level up from the chest, eg Tier 2 for normal, Tier 4 for rare, Tier 4 for legendary

BUT if the chest didn't get all 4 cards, then there is a 10% chance per missing card of getting a First Mate. Which means a 3 card chest has a 1 in 10 chance of also getting a First Mate, and a 1 card chest has a 3 in 10 chance of getting one.

And by "rolled" I think you are saying that there's a digital coin toss, or rolled like dice, or some random number generator, that chooses whether that chest - of any type - gets the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th card. And this is done for all chests each time.

So it is just as possible to get a normal chest with (Tier 1, Tier 1, Tier 4, Tier 4) as it is to get a legendary with (Tier 3, _, _, _) [ that is, if you are considering Tier 3 to be legendarily uncommon/rare. If not then it would be a Tier 4 ]. I think I understand your algorithm, and I hope you understand why a good part of the time it feels like I've been taken. Perhaps you should look at adjusting the rolling function to make it better for the more expensive chests. Otherwise, what's the point in buying them?
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Drew458 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:16 pm

I'd also suggest doubling the chances for getting a First Mate card, because none of the ships can fight well at the beginning levels without one. And to best play the game, you need several mates for use in several situations.

Assuming you don't want to start each game with a First Mate supplied - Big Tom is the most generic one - then I think they should show up in nearly all of the first chests opened. Or at least half of them.

On my current playing of this 2.6.5/6 Beta game it took me 28 legendary chests to get even one of them. And if you only get one after many chests, then you're going to spend a lot trying to upgrade him ASAP, which kind of makes you stuck with him even if you later get other Mates that seem better. Come on, it costs 486K and 1460 points to upgrade to level 17, which yields only a small additional percentage gain. A level 129 delivery quest pays 4.5K, so that's 108 of those just to gather the gold. My current mate, Old Man Joe, is at level 52, and the next upgrade will cost me 10446 upgrade points and millions of gold (which should be displayed before I apply the points, but it's over 4 million I'm sure). Yet even with him, my ship at D/H/S of Gold Tier 34/30/23 isn't really omnipotent at just level 129. Oh, it's good, D 207M/H 277M/S 46/R 23, it just isn't one shot kills 3 ships "legendary hydra cannon" good. More like 4 flaming shots to take out a 137 red ring Lusca ship. Which is Ok for now.

And of course if I'm discussing First Mates I have to mention the Twins thing; Jolly Robert and Martin Li are identical. Oops!! You should kill one of them off and swap in the other at the current or combined upgrade level, and then bring the killed mate back later as a 3/3/0, a D/H/S Mate mix you don't currently have. That might be a tricky bit of code, but it shouldn't be impossible, and you wouldn't be giving anyone an undeserved free ride. Unlike in 2.5, you know exactly how many points and gold were spent to attain any mate upgrade, so those totals from the upgraded killed mate could be applied to the remaining/substituted mate, crank the algorithm to set the new upgrade level, and give the player back any excess gold or upgrade points. Much much easier than the mess in 2.5 with the Tier 4/Tier 5 hull swap thing I went through. Running with the kill/rebate idea just a bit further, consider letting the player sell off some of their unwanted upgraded mates and get most of the points and gold back.

Ok, that's my two cents. Good luck with all of this.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:08 pm

Thanks for this feedback. I will go over this with the team and see if we can change those numbers.


I will change the double first mates. Its likely just a UI bug, but on the background they have different stats.


About the Stats: All the numbers are relative. I could add two extra 0 behind it, and it wouldnt matter. because the enemies are using the same stat calculations for gears and ship. So if a ship has low base health, the enemy will also have that low base health if they use that ship. There is 1 thing enemies dont have, and thats a first mate. Meaning that your first mate is your cutting edge. If enemies seem to be too powerful, we can change the speed at which they upgrade their gear.


About the chests, The chest rarity does not affect the "chances" to get better cards. The rolls are the same for all chests. The rarity of the chest does however limit which card it can contain.

Just from my head (Correct me if im wrong), the look in the chests are as followed:

Loot frorm a common: common, common, common, rare.
Loot from a rare: rare, common, rare, legendary.
Loot from a legendary: Legendary, Rare, Legendary, Godly.

The first one is Garanteed, second one has 75% chance to contain, third one 50%, and last one 25%.
So from a legendary chest it is possible to get the first and the last one, or all of them or any combination. But the first one is always there.
If any of the items is not in there, it has a 10% chance to become a First mate.

I will talk with the team about the cards and see if we can do something to add more ways to obtain them.
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Drew458
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Drew458 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:04 pm

Ah ha, I didn't know there was a "godly", ie Tier 4. But I think I understand your method now, and I've been able to "call" the chests I've won on the fly. And I am seeing that the average Legendary chest is both pretty thin and weak. One 2, one 3. I played all weekend, and opened at least 75 chests. I got 4 Tier 5 cards. I won no Legendary chests in battle, only 2 in Governor quests, and bought a bunch with gems. :cry: I am nowhere near being able to do any kind of upgrade for anything. I need thousands of card points. And I'm only on game level 137, not level 3840 or something. Leveling up is just as difficult in this version as in 2.5 once you get past the little beginner levels. All the more reason I suggested upgrade cards, or "godly" filled chests, as quest rewards. It's just really hard to do, and the enemies seem to get a bit stronger every level. So if I can't level up fairly often, I can't do much better than survive.

I had not realized that the ships used by the enemies carry the same stats as those ships when I use them. That makes sense. I've been doing those "Defeat 7 waves" quests, and when the enemies use Leviathan I have to shoot them all day long.

Oh well. Live, learn, play, fight, fix my strategy.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:29 am

The game isnt a cakewalk in the park anymore. There is not just 1 ship that rules them all. Each ship now has its own purpose. Leviathan has tons of health, is slow and can shoot a lot. Though its damage per cannonball is very low compared to ships of the same category.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:31 am

Also good to know you feel like you dont get enough cards. We can use that to balance it out a bit more. Maybe a feature that just allows you to pump a lot of gold in return for random cards? I will have to think about that one.

Also dont forget that enemies get stronger faster if you win. so many lose a few times on purpose, so the win streak breaks.

The enemies on win streak grow like this:

win 1: +1% total: +1%
win 2: +2% total: +3%
win 3: +3% total: +6%
win 4: +4% total: +10%
ect

Once you lose, when its al total +10%, it will go the other way down, but negative twice as fast

lose 1: -2% total: 8%
lose 2: -4% total: 4%
lose 3: -6% total -2%
lose 4: -8% total -10%

But if you would lose only twice and then win again, it goes like this:

lose 1: -2% total: 8%
lose 2: -4% total: 4%
win 1: +1% total: 5%
win 2: +2% total 7%
Don't judge me! I am trying my best.
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Aeregon
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Re: publish standards for the chests please

Post by Aeregon » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:15 am

Can you post me a screenshot of your equipment on you level?
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